G20 - Moskevská konvence

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Tomas.Vymazal
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G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Tomas.Vymazal »

Vcera po PP-leaders listu priletel nasledujici mail od Loly Voroniny:
Lola Voronina píše:Fellow Pirates,

On the last G20 conference the president of Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev mentioned that the Internet shouldn't be regulated or censored and that the system of the copyright law needs be changed. This year the president had a meeting with internet activists during which he asked them to create the project of the copyright law reform so he can discuss it with his colleagues during the next conference. The Association of Internet Publishers, Wikimedia Russia and the group of experts had created the concept of the Moscow Convention for the copyright which should replace the old and outdated Berne Convention that was first accepted in 1886 and the last time it was revised in 1971. The creators of this concept believe that Dmitry Medvedev will present it on the next G20 Summit wich will take place in Cannes, France on November 3-4, 2001. The Pirate Party of Russia is supporting the new Moscow Convention because it gives the possibility of further dialoge and change of the existing copying monopoly system. We ask pirates worldwide to send us your thoughts and opinions on this concept so we can publish them in Russian media.
The concept of the Moscow Convention for the Copyright

The need to reform the copyright law
The need to reform the copyright law, under national and international levels is the conclusion, to which the professionals (lawyers, artists, economists and representatives of the content industry) come worldwide. Established in the industrial age, the system of author rights was fully consistent with the way of functioning of the industry in the 19th and the first half of the 20th century but it is no longer corresponding to the digital age. The principles of the protection of authors' rights that are set out in the main international agreements - the Berne and Geneva Conventions and WIPO Copyright Treaty, - may not be fully realized in an environment where the methods of production, distribution, access and use of the culture have changed under the influence of digital technology and the Internet.
In the last few years it's appeared to be a number of fundamental new ways of communication and collaboration. The basis for economic development is the speed the creation and sharing of works, as well as ease of their revision. Often the product is no longer even and complete, but represents a complex of individual results of intellectual activity, which can constantly change. Basically the whole Internet society has become authors. Anyone who was actively using the network, was creating the protected works, often without knowing it. This led to the fact that on the one hand, the amount of available information became enormous - for one day people create more protectable works, than in all of the XIX century. On the other hand, the commercial value of most of the results of intellectual activity is very low and often non-existent. So the value of the potential actions in protecting them are many times bigger than their value. Usually the authors of such works and do not mean that their creations will be protected, but not making efforts to make the public aware of it or allow to use their works for free.
Besides that, the Internet has aggravated the problem of so-called "orphan" works, the search for authors and copyright-holders of which is impossible or requires a lot of effort, so many of these works fall out of the public turnover.

To tighten security is the way to a dead end
The conclusions that seem to be logical - the tightening of the protection requirements and increasing of the control over the content distribution - do not stand a technical audit and do not meet the capabilities of the control services, as well as they contrary to the way of life of the digital age people. Copyright law definitely needs be changed, and not by bringing the new restrictions, but by a new understanding of it's principles.

The basic principles of the reform
The basis of a new international convention on copyright should form a realistic and realizable principles, corresponding to the interests of society, protecting the creator law in using the works, and the public's right of access the culture. Only by following these requirements, the copyright will be respected, and will give the new opportunities for the creativity and social development.

To protect the protected
The state must protect the personal rights of the author (moral and nonproprietary), his proprietary rights of commercial use of his creations, the right of free distribution of works and also the cultural heritage that is in the public domain.
The protection of the creators rights has to distinguish the difference between two kinds of rights - proprietary (commercial disposal) and non-proprietary (personal or moral). Personal rights - in particular the right of name, must be protected independently throughout the duration of protection of copyright. Protection of the right of commercial use is provided to the author by the state as a benefit for a limited period of time. The way of protection should depend on the context of the publication and the way of its use. In particular, the use of the product for personal, nonprofit matters should not be a subject to state regulation or any restriction.

Registration of commercial exploitation of the works
Implementation of these principles is possible through a reference to historical legal experience, which some countries do have - for example a registration of works designed by the authors for the commercial turnover with the financial rewards to them. The use of the product for personal nonprofit use is impossible to control, because you can only monitor the information which is available. To obtain the material rewards the work should be registered. The registration shall be maintained under the control of the state, which thus learns what works should be protected. Perhaps the paid registration may be implemented, similar to any property registration. The implementing of the registration would solve the problem of "orphan" works, would limit the amount of state control, would make the authors make serious decisions regarding their rights, and will lead to the increase of the information in the public domain.

The freedom of using
The authors, who wish to establish the conditions for distribution of the works, can express their wishes in the form of a free public license. Free licenses for the works, do not imply any material reward for the author and do not require a formal registration, they are recognized and protected by the state. The works in relation to which the authors have not expressed their will in a free public license, or have not registered for commercial use will be deemed to have passed into the public domain.

The registration period
Registration of works to be undertaken for a certain period. This period may be 5 years, as proposed by a joint team of the Green Party and the European Free Alliance, or 14 years as offers the well-known expert on copyright Lawrence Lessig. A specific period of registration may be discussed at a new convention on copyright, but it should be fairly short and manageable. The registration itself may be renewed various times, if the author thinks that the commercial exploitation of the work is still relevant.

The deadline for protection
The registration can not be extended indefinitely and should be limited by the deadline for protection. That may be, for example, 20 years from the date of publication or even 50 years after his death (a period specified by the Berne Convention).
The duration of the deadline is the subject of future discussion of specific proposals of the new convention on copyright. However, it is absolutely clear that for the vast majority of the works of art and science embodied in most countries, the period of protection should be reduced - "70 years after his death" in reality means "life inprisonment" for such works.
The limit should depend on the format of the work - the same protection for films, scientific articles, computer programs and comments on blogs, is obviously irrational. In particular, this applies to the scientific texts, whose term of protection is advisible to limit to the bare minimum due to the rapidity of changes taking place in science. This will lead to a more rapid turnover and multiplication of scientific knowledge.

Support of the public domain
The state is obliged to care not only about the interests of authors, but also about the interests of the society, the state has to protect and support the public cultural heritage. According to the principles of a new convention on copyright, public domain sector will be increased by the works which protection period has expired, with works, non-registered for commercial use and for which the authors haven't expressed their will in the form of free public licenses, as well as works created at the expences of the government.
The state should not allow the reverse transition of the works from the public domain, and should take care of the public domain sector and provide the access to it in a digital form.

The transitional period
After the adoption of the Convention the transitional period is required, it should last not more than the registration period. During this period the authors and their heirs get the opportunity to register their works for the commercial use, or to dispose them through the public distribution under a free license (if the protection period for the work has not yet exceeded the time limit for protection, approved by the Convention). Otherwise, these works go into the public domain.

"Soviet" warranty
Regardless of the prospects and timing of the Moscow Convention on copyright, as an act of good will and caring for the protection and enhancement of the world public cultural heritage, the Russian Federation may recognize that all the works created in the Soviet Union and which economic rights that are currently disposed to Russian Federation, federal services and municipal authorities, as well as other government agencies, or been disposed at the time of changing the form of government, should go into the public domain. In addition, in case that the protection period has expired the work can also be transfered into the public domain.

Association of Internet Publishers, Wikimedia Russia and the group of experts
Best regards,
Lola Voronina,
Chief Administrative Officer, Pirate Parties International,
International Coordinator, Pirate Party of Russia.
Cili by to chtelo precist si ten navrh a pokud ma kdokoliv pripominky, sem s nimi, at jim to muzeme pripadne poslat - jsou na to tak dva az tri dny, aby to melo smysl.

Falkvingeho odpoved na predchozi mail:
Rick Falkvinge píše:Hi Lola and leaders,

after having read through the doc, it is almost a word-for-word copy of
the Pirate policies that the Greens adopted in the EU Parliament. It is
missing the piece about allowing remixes and mashups, but on the other
hand, has a piece about strengthening the public domain.

All in all, it would be nothing short of sensational if Medvedev
presented this at the G20 meeting, intending Pirate policies to replace
the Berne Convention pretty much right off the blueprint. It would not
be just one ding, but several, quite regardless of the responses of the
other G20 leaders in the first round.

When do we know if that happens, and over what channel will we be informed?

Cheers,
Rick
Jeste jsem to nestihl precist, ale predpokladam, ze kdyz Rick rika, ze to je prakticky to same, co nedavno prijali Zeleni v Evropskym parlamentu za sve, tak to tak bude.


Odpoved Rickovi od Loly:
Lola Voronina píše:Hi Rick,
However Dmitry Medvedev doesn't send us his plans and programs for approval :) He isn't our personal Golem either :) The things I know is that current president of Russian Federation for a few times already mentioned that he isn't satisfied with the existing copyright law. And asked the internet society for their suggestions. He received that now and it's up to him from now on to support them or not.
Regarding the prospective of his possible presentation I would like to show one old quote of Dmitry Medvedev:
Dmitry Medvedev píše:Ivan, did I tell you this already or not? On the last G8 only Cameron supported me, and just because of the lack of experience I believe. He became prime minister not that long ago. (Laugh) And all the others kept silent, or were talking about keeping everything as it is, that everything is fine. There were masters, so to speak, adults and very young. But still...
It's less than a week left till the G20! This convention was quite a big project in Russia so we will be informed, I'm pretty sure.

Best regards,
Lola Voronina,
Chief Administrative Officer, Pirate Parties International,
International Coordinator, Pirate Party of Russia.
Ja tomu jejimu mailu neporozumel, ale nekdo se mozna chyti.

Marcelova odpoved vsem:
Marcel Kolaja píše:Rick, Lola, Rok, and all international Pirates,

This seems to have a potential, however, please be cautious about
expressing general support to the concept. It contains several
misconceptions that could harm us. Besides details, such as that as
a (potential) lawmaker one should never name mechanisms that restrict the
public as protections, because they are clearly restrictions, there's no
interest of the public that needs to be balanced with the interest of the
authors.

Any indication of balance between copy monopolists' interests and the
interests of the public is wrong. If you start to discuss with this
starting point, you will get stuck in a discussion how important the
interests of the copy monopolists are and how impartant the interests of
the public are. And that's quite impossible to decide.

Moreover, it voids the obligations of a lawmaker. The interests of the
copy monopolists are no interests that need to be treated as special. Copy
monopoly is nothing natural, even for commercial use. It's just an
artificial concession given by the public (through lawmakers) to
a particular group. Therefore, it must not follow the interests of the
copy monopolists at all.

The purpose of the copy monopoly is to balance some interests, indeed.
However, not to balance the interests of the copy monopolists with the
interests of the public. It's only purpose must be to balance the
following two interests of the public:

* increase the amount of published works
* freedom in using published works (e.g. sharing)

To sum up, I recommend to support some of the partial goals set by the
convention, but not to support the convention as it is. Even when the
starting point is void, the convention sets goals we should support.
However, the starting point is in contrary to the obligations of
a lawmaker and makes defending of the goals impossible. Thank you for
considering that!


Regards,

Marcel Kolaja
Tenhle mail je pomerne straight forward a naprosto s nim souhlasim.

Odpoved od PP-RU:
Lola a Paul Rassudov píše:Dear Marcel, Rick, Rok and pirates,

I think we all do agree that it's time to destroy the foundation of a copy monopoly - the Berne Convention. Today we have the opportunity to use president Medvedev to state the need of changing the existing copyright system and to propose the new guidelines for such a convention at the upcoming G20.
Marcel, the concept of this convention is meant to be as much politically correct as possible, so it could be presented by a leader of the country, who isn't pirate :) The conception that our president is going to present on G20 might be even “softer” that the original “Moscow Convention”. But we do think that it's important to support and initiate the discussion on the NEW convention no matter if it's Moscow, Berlin or Mars convention.
Today we have a confederate – Dmitry Medvedev, who wants to change the balance of the copyright system in the direction of public interests. But to deny the rights of authors - means a definite failure of the attempt to overcome the Berne Convention! What will be the balance of interests in the new convention - the question for the further discussions. But for having the opportunity of this discussions in future we now need to support the idea of revising the Berne convention. All together!
We now have the opportunity to contribute the historic event - the destroy of the foundation of copy monopoly. So we ask the leaders of all pirate parties and PPI to support the convention, even if we do agree it isn't perfect.

Best regards,

Paul Rassudov, Pirate Party of Russia, Chairman
Lola Voronina, Pirate Party of Russia, International Coordinator
Myslim, ze PP-RU bude potrebovat silne indoktrinovat. Porad melou neco o nejake rovnovaze a jiny nesmysly. Chapu, ze Medvedev si nemuze dovolit vzit program Piratskych stran a precist ho tam, ale nechapu, proc by mu PP-RU nebo dokonce kterakoliv jina PP mela jen z toho duvodu jit na ruku. Kdyz nepoukazeme na detaily, ktere se nam nelibi, tak by to taky mohlo vypadat, ze zadna PP neni potreba, protoze zachrance Medvedev vi, jak na to.
Tito uživatelé poděkovali autorovi Tomas.Vymazal za příspěvky (celkem 3):
Marcel.Kolaja, Filip.Krska, Evzen.Boura
Tom Vymazal, podporovatel phpBB a bojovník za legalizaci heroinu
Takovej ten stav, když seš uprostřed stavu a myslíš si, že nemáš stav. -- Michal Wagner, tč. garant programového bodu Drogy
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Marcel.Kolaja
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Marcel.Kolaja »

Tomas Vymazal píše:Jeste jsem to nestihl precist, ale predpokladam, ze kdyz Rick rika, ze to je prakticky to same, co nedavno prijali Zeleni v Evropskym parlamentu za sve, tak to tak bude.
Ano, četl jsem si ten dokument, který přijali Zelení a jsou tam podobné nesmysly. Potřebuji, aby mě PP-CZ, pokud se mnou souhlasí, podpořila, jsem na to sám.

EDIT: za 2-3 dny bude dávno po bitvě


Zdraví
Tito uživatelé poděkovali autorovi Marcel.Kolaja za příspěvek:
Filip.Krska

Marcel Kolaja
kvestor Evropského parlamentu

Uživatelský avatar
Tomas.Vymazal
Člen KS Jihomoravský kraj
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Tomas.Vymazal »

Prectu si to dneska cestou ze slovenska a vecer sem napisu svuj nazor.
Tom Vymazal, podporovatel phpBB a bojovník za legalizaci heroinu
Takovej ten stav, když seš uprostřed stavu a myslíš si, že nemáš stav. -- Michal Wagner, tč. garant programového bodu Drogy
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Marcel.Kolaja
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Marcel.Kolaja »

Moje odpověď do listu:
Marcel Kolaja píše:On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:35:26PM +0200, Lola Voronina wrote:

> on G20 might be even “softer” that the original “Moscow Convention”. But
> we
> do think that it's important to support and initiate the discussion on
> the
> NEW convention no matter if it's Moscow, Berlin or Mars convention.

I absulutely agree on that point! And I never opposed to this one.
I fully encourage to support opening a discussion. There are certainly
things to discuss and to change. That's the reason why the Pirate Movement
arose in first place. :-)

However, support for opening a discussion and agreement with a particular
proposal are two completely different things. Also, a reasonable and
pragmatic approach would be to vote for a proposal that is better than the
status quo.

But it's unwise to identify yourself with the principles the proposal is
built upon, when they deny your principles because then you simply deny
your own ideals. Then you're losing your chance to defend your even better
proposal because others will rightfully claim that the principles you
agreed on before simply don't allow such a proposal.

So, to sum up:
support for opening a discussion: YES
support for proposals better than the status quo: YES, amend, if possible
support for principles that deny your own principles: NEVER EVER

We are Pirates. We are not servile politicians. So, please don't bend over
and keep your pants on! :-)

Zdraví
Tito uživatelé poděkovali autorovi Marcel.Kolaja za příspěvky (celkem 3):
Mikulas.Ferjencik, Tomas.Vymazal, Filip.Krska

Marcel Kolaja
kvestor Evropského parlamentu

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Mikulas.Ferjencik
Kontrolní komise
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Mikulas.Ferjencik »

Supr a strašně si se zlepšil v angličtině.

Garant pro oblast veřejných rozpočtů, mikulas.ferjencik@pirati.cz, 737 943 770

Podporuji Rekonstrukci Pirátů www.rekonstrukcepiratu.cz

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Tomas.Vymazal
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Tomas.Vymazal »

Tak jsem si ten dokument dneska precetl a nemam, co dodat k tomu, co psal Marcel. Autori toho textu si evidentne neuvedomuji, ze zakon ma mit _nejdriv_ na srdci zajem spolecnosti a pak teprve zajmy nekoho jinyho - viz:
Support of the public domain
The state is obliged to care not only about the interests of authors, but also about the interests of the society, ...
Takze opravdu nemam, co dodat.
Tom Vymazal, podporovatel phpBB a bojovník za legalizaci heroinu
Takovej ten stav, když seš uprostřed stavu a myslíš si, že nemáš stav. -- Michal Wagner, tč. garant programového bodu Drogy
Ivan.Bartos
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Ivan.Bartos »

No a dopiči, mně tady to vlákno nikde nevyskočilo a napsal jsem do PPI, že no problem a support. Whats next?
předseda Pirátů
ivan.bartos@pirati.cz
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Marcel.Kolaja
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Marcel.Kolaja »

Ivan Bartos píše:No a dopiči, mně tady to vlákno nikde nevyskočilo a napsal jsem do PPI, že no problem a support. Whats next?
No co, napiš tam, že seš kokot. Co ti na to mám říct? Ach jo.


Zdraví
Tito uživatelé poděkovali autorovi Marcel.Kolaja za příspěvek:
Martin.Svadlenka

Marcel Kolaja
kvestor Evropského parlamentu

Ivan.Bartos
Republikové předsednictvo
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Ivan.Bartos »

Tak zase mě nejebej. Tomík 30týho psal, že to ještě nečetl. Já jsem reagoval 30. října 2011 13:55 nějakýho času, takže předpokládám, že to bylo tak kolem 20:00 našeho. Tvůj post přišel 30 říj 2011 22:53. Ten jsem samozřejmě nemohl vidět. Kromě původního rozporování v části Tomíkova postu, kde tě cituje, tam nebylo patrné negativní stanovsiko, až na ten spodek, kde se píše o indoktrinaci PP-RU, který jsou obecně radikálnější než my.

Naopak jsem vycházel z:
Jeste jsem to nestihl precist, ale predpokladam, ze kdyz Rick rika, ze to je prakticky to same, co nedavno prijali Zeleni v Evropskym parlamentu za sve, tak to tak bude.


Takže chybu vídím spíše procesně s prapůvodní příčinou, že se o něčem takovém dozvídáme 2dny před samotnou akcí (PPI)+ musíme zajistit lepší a cílenější předávání informací. Fórum (mimo SZ) ani email, evidentně nejsou klíčovými červenými majáčky, že je třeba něco urgentně rozhodnout, nebo si dát pozor.
Např. já mám denně ca 100-150 pracovních emailů, gmail cca 30 soukromých, seznam tak 20-50. Na SZ, FB message, telefon a SMS jsem schopnej zareagovat okamžitě. Jsem mohl včera podpořit MArcelovo stanovsiko, se kterým souhlasím, namísto toho abych řešil, kde si Lukáš od Adama přebere samolepky...
Tito uživatelé poděkovali autorovi Ivan.Bartos za příspěvek:
Filip.Krska
předseda Pirátů
ivan.bartos@pirati.cz
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Filip.Krska
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Re: G20 - Moskevská konvence

Příspěvek od Filip.Krska »

Jabber ivan.bartos@pirati.cz a vubec vsichni vyznamni cinovnici by meli mit jako operativni kontakt vedle SZ (ta nema indikator pritomnosti, chytrejsi telefony ci klienti umi pres jabber i zadarmo hlas).

Kazdopadne souhlasim s tim, ze predpokladat, ze nekdo neco vi, kdyz to nekdo jiny napsal do nejakeho vlakna na foru je vzdusnej zamek.
Tito uživatelé poděkovali autorovi Filip.Krska za příspěvek:
Martin.Svadlenka
Evangelista Festivalu svobodných filmů

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